Here’s what we explored:

  • the brain can’t focus on the problem and solution at the same time
  • in the same way, when we get so so serious, we can’t see any solutions, only problems
  • Carla shares that she tends to be on the serious side of things and she’s not sure how helpful that is (she chuckles)
  • Carla wonders about radical joy as she experiences contentment more often, joy sometimes but perhaps not radical joy
  • in some cultures seriousness is prized, either tacitly or explicitly
  • seriousness comes with a lot of judgement, Juliet remembers her intensity around organic food and farming
  • Dr Bill Pettit suggests (somewhat tongue in cheek) seriousness should be classed as a mental illness
  • Juliet realises she never saw that seriousness closes down our ability to connect
  • Juliet recalls her delight at watching a panel of black feminist activists and being surprised at how joyful it felt
  • she was expecting heavy, seriousness because this community has experienced such intense violence and oppression which feels very serious
  • one of the older women who’d been an activist for 40 odd years spoke directly to how joy was necessary to sustain the fight over a long period of time otherwise you burn out
  • outrage, anger and divisiveness feel off-putting, why is that?
  • pure, grounded authentic anger is different, we are not suggesting suppressing that
  • but when seriousness, judgement and impatience move in, it closes down dialogue
  • have we not moved through divisiveness because we’re not connected to that larger joy?
  • to bring joy to so-called serious issues can feel disrespectful as if you are not taking it seriously, what’s that about?
  • outrage is very consuming and is not very creative. It leaves us feeling drained without moving understanding on
  • outrage is like a sugar rush
  • after outrage dissipates (as in a row when you feel self-righteous), it can leave us bereft
  • is it habit? Have we learnt to interact with serious issues with urgency, impatience and seriousness?
  • like a sugary snack rather than a nice meal – it’s not very sustaining or nourishing
  • does outrage give us the hit of energy that gets us to move?
  • Carla tells a story when she was out boating with her partner and a friend (all women), and how a man in another boat started telling them how to boat even though they are experienced boaters
  • Carla has never seen these men try to instruct other men
  • the friend suggested the man meant well and it is better to see the best in someone
  • while Carla could see that, she recognises that the internal snapper doesn’t feel good BUT how do you address the injustices and slights?
  • when we feel disgusted she knows she’s off base
  • knowing you’re off base is a great start – it’s helpful if you can see that
  • we’re going to get reactive, let’s take that as a given AND the mind can change
  • urgency is a red flag – when it feels urgent, just WAIT (if you can)
  • we’re not trying to be perfect beings, not constantly monitoring our behaviour
  • urgency and seriousness show me I’m losing connection to a sense of things that is underneath the up and down of my reactions and feelings
  • reactivity (happens all the time), iis it when we go from a felt sense of connection to the feeling of fear and separation?
  • when we pause, let the reaction go through, we might find something else that fosters connection rather than deeper separation
  • Carla expresses how much she loves her clients even though they have different political opinions
  • at one level, it doesn’t make any sense to Carla that the way people vote could change her love for them
  • is being able to hold multiple perspectives part of being a healthy adult human being?
  • where we’re looking from, impacts what we see
  • The Buy Nothing Project feels like a metaphor for life. It’s about connecting with neighbours through sharing. When we share we form a bond
  • That feeling of love Carla has for her clients, you see and feel it, her face lit up
  • when we don’t connect from the heart with people, we are relating to a bunch of ideas we have about people rather than the human being who is in front of us
  • when egos go into battle, it gets bloody
  • in that exchange, you’re never going to get anything other than division and more polarity
  • seeing black feminists, for example, stand up in power with passion from a place of profound connection and love feels so different from disconnected rage
  • how do you take a stand but from a place of love and connection
  • it’s not about having a strategy but about beginning to trust
  • we’re always connected, it’s always present, but we aren’t always feeling it in the moment
  • we can feel the difference between collapsing into pettiness versus still being grounded and feeling all our feels
  • Carla tries on responding in the boat situation as if it had been her young entrepreneurial clients who she loves, trying to tell her how to manage her boat
  • she sees how much lighter it would have been and how easy it would have been to lovingly guide them with nothing on it
  • Carla shares a story of how that loving questioning has enabled her clients to listen for new perspectives which they probably couldn’t hear when it is delivered from fear and insecurity
  • it looks like the world is changing rapidly, we are going to have to adapt rapidly and we’re going to need each other
  • the opportunity to foster connection can come in all shapes and sizes, it can be right under our noses and easy to miss
  • radical joy is another name for deep connection, available any moment, it’s just our thinking takes us away from it
  • Carla remembers a family of an ex of hers who are anti-gay rights yet they loved her because they got to know her as a person.
  • yet that experience didn’t shift their views
  • Carla reflects on her response to political flags and sees how she wants to stay connected to herself and others and it is easier to learn more when people are loving and extend understanding
  • after elections, division, war, our neighbours are still our neighbours and that’s one place we can see the possibility of connecting although it feels hard. Underneath we all want the same thing: love and connection.

Sending love to all our listeners. If you enjoyed this episode, please do leave a review and share on your networks.


Carla is a mindset & performance coach working with high achieving, high-performance entrepreneurs who are dealing quietly with anxiety.

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Poet & 3 Principles facilitator, Juliet loves exploring and pointing towards freedom of mind for those curious to engage more fully with all aspects of their life. 

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